>>> new york city council members , former police officer , and michael eric dyson . michael, you were just telling a story, which is a story i think almost every black man has, everyone that i've ever talked to.
>> i'm 54 years old, detroit, michigan, police in an unmarked car, stopped me and my brother and friend, said we have stolen our car. i was going to pull out my registration. the policeman called me the "n fts word, knocked me on the ground, hit my friend on the ground, ran the registration, saw it was my car, got in their car, drove off, no apology. this was the problem --
>> what year was that?
>> this was 1978 . progress has been made, but malcolm x said you don't put a knife in my back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress. black people want the cops to come, but want them to make suitable distinctions between criminals and those not the criminals. we don't make those decisions.
>> when you say progress --
>> the word progress -- i like the way chris rock said it, and he said, people just stop acting as crazy. when you say progress, sometimes you're acknowledging the crazy behavior that happened.
>> here's my question, if there is progress made institutionally, if this is a question of how do we get policing not to do profiling, that's the question. there's a whole lot of big questions about race and the criminal justice system , but if we have made some progress on that, what has made that progress happen and how do we keep it going?
>> progress was what judge wilkens did, until the mid '90s, profiling was openly and officially practiced. that has changed.
>> wait, explain that change.
>> particularly in maryland and new jersey is where the lawsuits came out, but the cops had a bad profile based on dea agents who asked cops who they found drugs on and the cops said we found drugs on young black men.
>> let me say this, you have kelly saying this, he's saying we're underprofiling, if you looked at more white people , you'd find more white crime.
>> that's my point.
>> they are not looking at white people . you said on your show last night the drugs were being done by white people .
>> gun violence . and i want to make sure -- that's a very big thing in my community, it is gun violence . the problem is, what do we do to get to that, and to this date, and throughout our history, overreliance on enforcement and locking up as many black and latino men has been what we tried to do. it's weakened. nypd, which is the law enforcement , came out and responded. that should be one community partner. where are the other agencies, where is the partner of mental health , youth development , employment agencies , where are all the other agencies? we have to have change in the discussion about what public safety is.
>> we want all of that, plus at the same time people are being stopped. if there were white kids being stopped, we wouldn't have it. we know already it's not about logic or reason. it's about investment and identification.
>> we also know --
>> white stops than the black stops.
>> we don't know that whites and blacks use drugs at the same amount.
>> self reporting of white people is they do a lot more drugs.
>> more income, you got more drugs.
>> the point is, when you only search one group, that's where you find it.
>> this is an important point. this is a really important point about the root of this, right, if you search one group, that's the group that we should profile, then, of course --
>> once it comes out of washington, suddenly cops feel justified. look, it came out of the dea.
>> in new york city , they kept changing the goal of increasing the stops, right? first to get more guns off the streets, less guns, then up until last year, shootings have stayed relatively the same. then they said it was to get murders down, which has decreased, and we're happy about that. but if the same people are getting shot --
>> then the argument becomes, this is working. i've heard this argument from mayor bloomberg .
>> look at the precincts, there's no correlation.
>> not only that, you're monotizing the pathology. what you're doing is saying we're going to give more money by stopping this stuff, then you monotize pathological behavior as opposed to fixing it structurally.
>> new york city council member, former baltimore police officer , and eric dyson, msnbc political analyst. that's "a in ". "the rachel maddow show" starts now.
>> did you say you were being a durpy night?
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